Lincoln, Illinois
City Council Committee's Meeting
December 14, 2010
Minutes of the City of Lincoln City Council Committees' Meeting held in the Council Chambers
on Tuesday, December 14, 2010.
Those present were Alderman Anderson, Alderman Armbrust, Alderman Bacon, Alderman
Busby, Alderman Hoinacki, Alderman Horn, Alderman Neitzel, Alderman O’Donohue,
Alderman Tibbs, and Alderman Wilmert. Also present were Police Chief Greenslate, City
Engineer Mr. Mathon, Interim Fire Chief Miller, and EMC Manager Mr. Tackett. Also present
were Mayor Snyder, City Clerk Mrs. Martinek, City Attorney Mr. Bates, City Treasurer Mr.
Conzo, and Recording Secretary Mrs. Riggs.
Mayor Snyder called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. There were ten Aldermen present
(Alderman Anderson, Alderman Armbrust, Alderman Bacon, Alderman Busby, Alderman
Hoinacki, Alderman Horn, Alderman Neitzel, Alderman O’Donohue, Alderman Tibbs, and
Alderman Wilmert) and none absent.
Everyone present recited the Pledge of Allegiance.
Boy Scout Troop #102 (Noah and Jonathan) were present observing for their citizenship badge.
The Mayor asked for the Committees' Issues to be Presented:
Finance, Policy and Procedure:
Chairman Alderman Anderson said it was customary to pay the last payroll early on it would be
on December 23, 2010 and asked to have it on the Consent Agenda.
Mayor Snyder said they have traditionally not had a Committee as a whole meeting the last week
of the year and asked that be on the Consent Agenda. He asked for everyone to get their items
for the January 3, 2011 agenda to Mrs. Martinek by December 30.
Fire/Water & ESDA:
Chairman Alderman Horn said she did not have a report.
Grounds, Buildings and Local Improvements:
Chairman Alderman Tibbs said she had spoken with Alderman Horn over the weekend about
they really don’t know what they have until we have to use it as far as the 911 emergency over
here with the highway things that went on Sunday. It would blow your mind listening to the
working of all of that. The lady that did the 911 was absolutely fantastic.
Alderman Horn said she had control of the situation. Alderman Tibbs said it was wonderful
to know that we could put that to use this last weekend and she wanted to thank them. Police
Greenslate said he would pass that on to Mr. Fulscher when he saw him.
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Alderman Tibbs said buildings and grounds has spent a little money to replace a furnace in the
bay area which she would allow the chief to comment on. Another thing was some electrical
work where we had to get in compliance by January 15, 2011 which was an additional $500.00
besides $3,460.00 for the new furnace. These are items that they can’t wait until May on and it
was something that we had to have.
Interim Fire Chief Miller said just before the weather got cold this last round one of the furnaces
would not fire up. They had the service company come in and look at it. The furnace itself was
probably 30-35 years old and the heat exchanger in it was bad and they were putting over 100
parts per million of carbon monoxide in the apparatus floor right above the bunk room. They
shut it down and because of the age it had to be replaced. That was kind of an emergency thing
that came up and they wanted it in before it got too cold this weekend and it is done. The other
project that he is working on and he has a spec just about ready to go out for bids for the grant
that they received on the diesel exhaust removal system for the station and he believed the grant
was $40,000.00 to $45,000.00. He had a couple of vendors in showing what they have and got a
generic spec written for things that are going to suit the department. He showed it to Mr. Bates
office and they looked it over and he has a couple more corrections to get that back over there.
Alderman Tibbs asked to have that on the agenda to go out for bids for the fire station exhaust
system.
Mayor Snyder said the Department of Labor inspection that was a compliance thing that they
had some issues with City Hall as well as the fire station and those things had to be taken care of.
Interim Fire Chief Miller said they had the fire station things done that they could do in house for
the electrical issue was something that they had to have a contractor come out and that is the only
thing they are waiting on.
Alderman O’Donohue asked how buying the furnace affected the budget.
Alderman Tibbs said they have money there and wish they knew in March the unknowing and
all the things that come up and their line is holding its own. She was just letting them know they
were spending money.
Alderman Anderson said they had contacted her on that to make sure we were ok budget wise
and she had looked at it and right now we are doing ok since we had some money that came into
those funds that help offset that. This is one of the areas where you hope when you put it in the
budget that you’re going to cover the unexpected because things happen like a furnace.
Sewer Treatment Plant, Sewers and Drainage:
Chairman Alderman Busby said 2 weeks we handed out a contract with American Water. He
was hoping that everyone had read through it. There is a discrepancy with regard to the Mayor
and our City Attorney.
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Alderman Busby said typically in a contract we’ve got gross negligence on page 4 up towards
the top and we have on past contracts before had this in there.
Mr. Bates said he would beg to differ on that. They had never passed a contract to his
knowledge saying that we indemnify somebody for everything except their gross negligence.
When we have passed contracts before we have indemnified for their negligence but he did
not know this was coming up and if he remembered correctly it has us indemnifying them for
everything except their own gross negligence so even if they are negligent they are indemnified.
He didn’t know if the city had ever done that.
Alderman Wilmert asked about the difference between gross and just negligent.
Mr. Bates said he did not know the standard and regular negligence is something that you do
that is outside (what a prudent person would do under normal circumstances). If they commit
some type of regular negligence then we still have to indemnify and protect them with this
agreement unless it goes to the point of them being grossly negligent. You like to have black
letter definitions and the law doesn’t work that way, courts define that and he can’t. It goes
past the point of just being normal negligence. They got up on their high horse and they won’t
change it. They said they are doing this as a favor to us.
Alderman Busby said they will not change it. Mr. Bates said the Mayor and he wanted it changed
and they said basically they are doing this as an accommodation to the city.
Alderman Neitzel said won’t they have their own insurance that would cover their negligence
like we have our insurance.
Mr. Bates said potentially it wouldn’t be covered by our insurance. Indemnification is we’re
agreeing to protect and defend and pay any damages that may be assessed against them. I think
if you look at our insurance policy our insurance probably excludes what’s called contracted
liability. We are covered for our own liability and for our own negligence and for things we do
incorrectly but if we go out and expand our risk by contracting to cover someone else’s liability
we have contracted the additional liability that our insurance carrier didn’t bargain to cover for
us. He has expressed a concern with the Mayor and Alderman Busby that this is contracted
liability that we did not otherwise have unless we undertake it under this contract. If we have a
claim our carrier may deny the coverage that we have to afford to American Water.
Alderman Neitzel said is it worth having this agreement. Alderman Busby thought so and said
they were $137,000.00 in arrears. Alderman Neitzel said we don’t want to take the $137,000.00
to indemnify American Water. Alderman Wilmert said this is to shut off if they are in arrears
with the sewer and could potentially get sued. Mr. Bates said the guy driving the truck goes out
and runs over a kid on his way to shut off the water for us and don’t think for a second we’re not
going to get sued if they are on business for us to go shut off the water at our written request.
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Mr. Bates said if they negligently run over someone and doesn’t go to the level of gross
negligence under this contract and then if our insurance carrier says you contracted for that
liability we didn’t and it is on your nickel not us.
Alderman Wilmert asked if they could get some type of liability umbrella. Mr. Bates said he
couldn’t answer that if a company would cover contracted liability.
Mayor Snyder said American Water was open to all the other changes and there were several.
They would not budge on this gross negligence. He let them know that he didn’t think it was
right to take responsibility for their own negligence. They claim that is the way it is with the
other contracts they have with other municipalities.
Alderman Neitzel asked if there are other factors involved. Mayor Snyder as he remembered
the contract they notify them of the people that we want shut off and they are only acting on our
instructions.
Mr. Bates said there is a state law that regulates shut off and they have to comply with it and we
have to comply with it as it basically boils down to notice requirements, we have to give certain
notices to any residents of any property before their water is shut off. Once we have given them
notice and gone through the time constraint of the statute we can shut off the water.
Alderman Busby said that is why the contract is water shut off letter which everybody should
have a copy. Alderman Tibbs said would this cause our insurance to go up or would we have
to get some additional coverage. Mayor Snyder said Mr. Bates doesn’t know about additional
insurance coverage and it may be outside of our existing coverage. Alderman Busby said on
this letter if this passes this letter will go to the residents that are living there and to the owner.
Mayor Snyder said he didn’t know if that issue was resolved because they bill the owner of
the property for sewer and they bill whoever the account is and for water they bill whoever the
account is under which could be the owner or could be the tenant.
Alderman O’Donohue said there could be a scenario where the tenant is paying the water bill
and the owner is not paying the sewer so we’re shutting off water for everything they should and
the owner hasn’t so we’re going to shut the water off because of the owner. He said there is a
lawsuit somewhere.
Mr. Bates said that has been one of the stumbling blocks and he thought Alderman Busby’s plan
is that letter and he was not quite sure how he (Alderman Busby) was going to know that it is a
rental property. We bill the owner but we really don’t have any knowledge that there is someone
other than the owner residing there so just say you’re going to send that letter to the owner and
occupant. You are going to send that to the address where the service is and the address on the
bill.
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Alderman Busby said the owner is not going to live in four or five different houses. Mr. Bates
said if you have a service address that is different than the billing address then you are going to
send it to the occupants plus the owner. Alderman Busby said right.
Mr. Bates said that is what they get into with Ordinance Violations with Mr. Lebegue a lot and
then we start getting calls where the landlords say it’s the tenants fault and the tenant says it’s the
landlords fault. At that point you are going to have to decide if you are going to issue a shut off
and somebody is going to have to make that decision.
Alderman Neitzel said this is tough. Alderman Busby said it is very tough but we have no other
way of collecting. Alderman Bacon said what about a collection agency and it sounds like it
would be simpler and cheaper than going through all of this if we can’t cover our liability for
this gross negligence. Alderman Busby said what is the percentage for collection agencies?
Alderman Bacon didn’t know. Alderman Neitzel said 30%. Alderman Busby said that was
right and there are 70% they cannot collect. Mr. Bates said he would guess the fee is at least
30%. Mr. Conzo said it usually goes down if they can’t collect it in a certain amount of time.
Alderman Busby said there are many cities that have this same contract. Alderman Wilmert said
they have homework and they don’t necessarily have to see about additional coverage and see
how other cities deal with this very issue then act on it.
Alderman Armbrust said after the water is shut off, how long can the home be lived in because
he thought it was the point that it had to be evacuated at that time. Mr. Bates said once the water
is shut off Mr. Lebegue will post. Alderman Bacon asked Alderman Busby if he had talked with
the other cities and municipalities that have done this and what have they done about this gross
negligence. Alderman Busby said they have accepted it and the water company will not change
their mind.
Alderman Bacon said she understood but she was talking about the municipalities that have an
agreement with Illinois American Water, have you talked to these other city officials and asked
them about that clause that is in this contract. You say they agree to it, alright what are they
going to do to cover themselves if something does happen. She just thought a collection agency
sounds so much simpler and she agreed with Mr. Bates that they should not stick their necks out
here. She thought it was scary with the way the budgets are.
Alderman Anderson said she would be interested to find out how these other communities
handled the situation with possible or potential shut offs of property that isn’t owned by the
tenants that are living there and if they have the same kind of an issue. She thought if they can
cover the liability with the insurance company for a reasonable rate she thought it would have
to be considered but somebody would have to check into that and see if they would even offer
that coverage and what the cost would be. She would be interested in how they handle rental
properties that the landlord is the one responsible for the bill and tenant is the one penalized.
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Alderman Anderson said that makes her probably more uncomfortable than this whole liability
thing. Alderman Neitzel said she didn’t like that either.
Alderman Wilmert said we have to see how many cases that is. If we have 100 accounts that are
due and he doubted that every single one was a rental. We may have a handful that is the case
and we can deal with those on exception basis. He didn’t want that to drive the entire decision.
Alderman Neitzel asked if Pekin was one of the towns. Alderman Busby said yes and
Champaign. Mayor Snyder said they can inquire Illinois American Water to give them a list and
they could contact them and see how they handle that issue.
Mr. Bates said you also have the mobility issue and he thought that was probably the bottom
line because there is a lot less mobility with the owners of the property than there is with tenants
of property. He said that they had changed some things and they were not identical and the gal
in the legal department they had their last conference call with was very definite that this gross
negligence provision was in every one of them.
Alderman Busby said he would check with Pekin and Mr. Dave Schoenhour and would bring up
in January.
Alderman Busby said Mrs. Martinek I heard that you ordered a new program for billing and
asked what it cost. Mrs. Martinek said they had ordered and they had talked about before and
it was coming in at $8,000.00 and she had talked with Mr. Tackett and he was going to pay part
of that. Alderman Busby asked if she talked to anybody else. Mrs. Martinek said it has been
discussed.
Alderman Neitzel said she told Mr. Tackett that she thought the sewer department should pay for
the program because they got the money back ($240,000.00) and they ought to be able to help
us out with the program to make it easier for the City Clerk to collect. Mrs. Martinek said it was
put in the budget.
Alderman Anderson said yes it was all discussed during the budget process and we put that in for
the anticipation and we knew we would have to update it and also with the anticipation of going
to a situation where we would be possibly going to a shut off situation and to be able to control
it. It was included in the budget.
Alderman Busby wanted to know where they were buying this program from.
Mrs. Martinek said it was a company called LOCIS and they were actually one of the best
deals. She thought if he would remember during the summer that Charley Joe that called from
a company and they came in at $44,000.00. We put it in the budget because eventually we will
have to go with paper statements.
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Mrs. Martinek said she talked to Doris and Susan and they are in agreement with it. The other
thing is they are losing the technical support from the fund ware and it was installed in 1987 and
there has never been an update and in fact they are one of the few that are left using it. There has
been concern with the Illinois Municipal League that the postcards, because of the privacy issue,
will not be able to be used. The new system will support paper and cards. It will also give them
the option of email statements.
Alderman Wilmert said he did not sit in on the demo and could if they wanted him to. Alderman
Busby said yes. Alderman Wilmert said he would check it out.
Police:
Chairman Alderman Hoinacki said he did not have a report.
Downtown parking
Mayor Snyder said the downtown parking is well enforced by volunteers and there have been
some suggestions made about various things. He didn’t know that they would be ready to vote
on anything but he wanted to throw some things out that had been mentioned. A rather extensive
area that is 2 hour parking and it is not just the square but all around downtown. It has been
suggested that perhaps you might want to consider restricting the two hour parking to perhaps
the area of the square (4 sides) and the block in each direction. That raises issues and thought
they had gotten some communication from the historical and genealogical society 2 hour parking
there and their concern about people visiting and getting tickets. If we say that is no longer two
hour parking it is right there by the train station and they could have people get on the train there
and take the 7 a.m. train and come back on the 10 p.m. train. He said the Police Chief Greenslate
have had several conversations with the Oasis regarding signs that had been there and are now
missing on Kickapoo Street side. Before the resurfacing there were four spots there and those
four spots were designated as Oasis Senior Center Parking from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. After
the resurfacing and re-striping and there are now three but somewhere the signs disappeared and
they would like the city to re-designate for 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. There would be no penalty for
violating. Behind Guzzardo’s are six spots designated for the Oasis. They only way to know if
someone is in the Oasis Senior Center is to go in and check. He said Mr. Bates was concerned
about our ability to designate certain city spots for certain non profit organizations and even for
private organizations. Another issue with the Oasis is in the alley behind the Oasis the owner
of the property which he thought was Edward Jones office they own the property all the way
to the alley and right now they have some parking barriers where people can park in there and
they allow Oasis people to park in there and it is not all surfaced. The Oasis asked if the city
would resurface that and make those parking spots for the Oasis and it doesn’t belong to us so
we couldn’t do that and if the property owner would lease that property to the city then we could
make those improvements.
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Mayor Snyder said another issue for parking is the alley for State Bank that is one way between
Broadway and Pekin is one way for the South to the North and the Scully Building now has
parking behind it and it is at the very north end of that alley so legally to get into that lot you
would have to go to the other end and come in and park and maybe it doesn’t always happen
legally. The alley was one way for the bank’s drive thru and the drive thru is no longer than and
so someone wants that two way.
Alderman Tibbs said for people going to historical society they could get their ticket validated.
Mr. Bates said as a business owner on Clinton Street he would hate to see them abolish the two
hour parking because he has issues over there just like the issues on the square where there are a
lot of employees that park on Clinton Street in front of his office. He has talked to other business
owners whose employees were doing that and they have been pretty cooperative about. He had
gone through a period of time where every parking space in front of his office and across the
street were taken by neighboring business employees. If you get rid of that then there would be
no way he could address that.
Mayor Snyder said he would get a map together so everybody can see where the two hour is.
Alderman Wilmert said the one way alley is a separate issue. Mayor Snyder said it would take
an ordinance change. Alderman O’Donohue said he would poll the businesses there. Mayor
Snyder asked to have that on the agenda.
Streets and Alleys:
Chairman Alderman Neitzel said she had gone over the budget
Ordinance and Zoning:
Chairman Alderman O’Donohue said he did not have a report.
Sidewalks, Forestry and Lighting:
Chairman Alderman Armbrust said he did not have a report.
Sanitation/Technology:
Chairman Alderman Wilmert said at the last Joint Solid Waste Meeting the budget was approved
and there are no increases. Zoning Office has gotten a new computer and has been dejunkified in
getting the pre-installed stuff off and the good stuff on and getting it ready and restored DVD’s
made and essentially it is in the Mayor’s office ready to go.
Alderman Wilmert said he wanted to make the Council aware that at some point in time he is
going to bring to everyone’s attention. He said he thought he might send them the link but there
is an interesting service available called see click fix and one of the things he talked about in
his campaign was improving communication to constituents and he would like to pursue this or
bring it to the attention for everyone.
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Alderman Wilmert said it is a way for the people to see something and they can make note and
post on a website and creates a task list so our various departments can see.
Insurance:
Chairman Alderman Bacon said she did not have a report.
Mayor Snyder said the Levy Hearing is Monday, December 20, 2010 at 7:15 p.m.
Mr. Conzo said they have several well bricks available and they will be $18.53 through
Christmas (normally $25.00).
Alderman Tibbs said the Main Street Lincoln ornament is now available.
Mayor Snyder said he had a letter from Readers Digest about cheer for your city and you can
vote for your city.
Mayor Snyder passed out a map to the Alderman about the former orphanage in Normal and they
shared some of the things they learned and the plans that they should have in place prior to doing
anything significant with the LDC property. An example was the power plant was converted to a
software company.
Alderman Busby made a motion to adjourn the meeting and Alderman Neitzel seconded it.
There were nine yeas (Alderman Anderson, Alderman Armbrust, Alderman Bacon, Alderman
Busby, Alderman Hoinacki, Alderman Horn, Alderman Neitzel, Alderman O’Donohue,
Alderman Tibbs, and Alderman Wilmert), zero nays, and none absent; motion carried.
The City of Lincoln Committee’s as a Whole Meeting adjourned at 8:00 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Risa Riggs
Recording Secretary
City of Lincoln