Lincoln, Illinois
City Council Committee's Meeting
July 26, 2011
Minutes of the City of Lincoln City Council Committees' Meeting held in the Council Chambers
on Tuesday, July 26, 2011.
Those present were Alderman Anderson, Alderman Armbrust, Alderman Bacon, Alderman
Busby, Alderman Hoinacki, Alderman Horn, Alderman Neitzel, Alderman O’Donohue,
Alderman Tibbs, and Alderman Wilmert. Department Heads present were Assistant Fire Chief
Dunovsky, Safety and Building Officer Mr. Lebegue, Police Chief Greenslate, City Engineer
Mr. Mathon, Mr. Kitzmiller for EMC, and Street Superintendent Mr. Jackson. Also present were
City Clerk Mrs. Martinek, City Attorney Mr. Bates, City Treasurer Mr. Conzo, and Recording
Secretary Mrs. Riggs.
Mayor Pro Tem Busby called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. City Clerk Mrs. Martinek called
the roll. There were ten Aldermen present (Alderman Anderson, Alderman Armbrust, Alderman
Bacon, Alderman Busby, Alderman Hoinacki, Alderman Horn, Alderman Neitzel, Alderman
O’Donohue, Alderman Tibbs, and Alderman Wilmert) and none absent.
The Pledge was said by all.
Public Participation
Mrs. Sarah Wilson lives at 419 Willard Avenue and reminded them she had been there a couple
of weeks ago with regard to the petition for the 4 way stop signs be placed at Willard and
Sherman Avenue. She understood there has been some continuing research done on that and
everyone has a map and she is not the one that generated the map. She said Mr. Jackson got
credit for that. She was present to say her understanding and this seems to concur with what she
understands, which there is a proposal instead of a 4 way stop sign at Sherman and Willard to
put a two way North/South stop sign at Sherman and Willard and an East/West stop sign at
Sherman and Willamette. She thought it was wonderful that Willamette was being looked at.
That is also an unmarked intersection that needs something to slow traffic down. She was here
tonight to offer what might be a correction in case she was misunderstood previously as well as
make a statement. That correction or issue that she would like to highlight that this is not a
request simply to clarify who should stop and who should have the right of way. They are
concerned about the accidents that have happened and the near accidents that have happened as
recently as this weekend. We are experiencing excessive speeds on both streets and because
they do have children that live on Willard as well as on Sherman we are concerned for their
safety as well as for the people who are driving North on Sherman because of the people that are
using the excessive speed on Willard. She hasn’t heard anyone say anything about this being a
financial concern. She did understand that part of what they are trying to address is traffic flow.
She understands the frustration of having to stop at every single intersection and that is why they
have major thorough fares so we don’t have to do that. She said she would be the first one to
admit that when she gets in her she just wants to go. She is willing to be inconvenienced for the
sake of the children who live in our neighborhood.
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Mrs. Wilson knew from talking to many of her neighbors that they were not able to be here
tonight because of either work or having plans to be out of town. We are willing to be
inconvenienced in order to make everyone in the neighborhood safer.
Mr. Ike Varboncoeur lives at 411 Willard. He said you are talking about the same situation with
the four way stop. Just recently he’s noticed several cars down Willard like Sunday night one
came from the West and came past his house at probably 60 miles an hour and never stopped at
the intersection. They come off Home Avenue the same thing and blow through there like it is
a drag strip. If one child jumped out there it would be all over. The traffic flow gets worse and
worse every weekend. They want a 4 way stop there before some child gets killed.
Mr. Jackson said he, Police Chief Greenslate, and Deputy Chief Geriets looked at it and looked
at the traffic counts. For Willard Avenue there were 25 cars a day, Willamette is 45, and Frorer
was 125. He wanted to say first that stop signs are not to be used to control speed of the traffic.
Speed limit signs are for control of speed limits. They had those locations which would allow
the traffic to flow on block either direction or two blocks instead of everybody having to stop
every block. The only two streets that are going to be open and they don’t get any complaints
is McLean, now Home Avenue he and Alderman Tibbs did see someone racing down Home
Avenue. No one has complained about them so the signs are just there in the middle. It didn’t
matter which way they went and said it was the Council’s vote. They were just offering a
suggestion so they could slow them coming down the hill and then slow them down shooting
East/West.
Mrs. Wilson wanted to add that she appreciated that this is being considered and if they do have
to settle for a two way they appreciate that they have at least made an attempt and they can
clarify when there is an accident who should get ticketed.
Mr. Jackson said the way they have proposed it you can only go one block and you hit a sign.
Sherman coming off Wyatt one block you hit a sign and then you go two blocks and then you hit
the 4 way. On Willamette you can only go one block from Home Avenue you hit a sign going
another block off Sherman you hit a sign and another block to Hamilton you hit another sign and
then you have two blocks to McLean and Frorer of course has the two way stops and two blocks
there that are totally open.
Alderman Tibbs said she and Mr. Jackson were sitting down there the other day and it’s
remarkable what you see and she encourages them to go that way and look at the situation
especially if you are going to vote “not in favor” for these people. I don’t live there and to tell
you the truth I wouldn’t want to. I wouldn’t want to sit there with my kids out there in that. She
believed wholeheartedly that they should have a 4 way stop there at Willard and Sherman. The
traffic going through there you can see on your map that is a clear shot clear through as well as
on Willamette. We have Home Avenue and it is a clear shot. We are talking about a whole lot
of speed here. She saw that herself the other day and it really scared here.
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Alderman Tibbs said one gentleman asked her to come over and this was on a Sunday will you
come over and sit in front of my house and just watch this for a few minutes. She counted 5
cars that completely blew stop signs and acting like there were no stop signs there. At least they
would have stop signs but if anything happened at least we would have something to go back
on that these people were supposed to be protected. She encouraged them to stand behind the
people of her ward for these stop signs.
Alderman O’Donohue wanted to make sure he heard Alderman Tibbs correctly you are saying
that the stop signs that are there are not effective to slow down speed. Alderman Tibbs said
there were some stop signs in the valley where she was sitting and the man said he didn’t let
his grandkids go out there and play because there is a stop sign at the corner and they just go
right on through like it is not there. Alderman O’Donohue said he understood the point but he
thought they were here to help reduce the speed but if they are ignoring the stop signs anyway.
Alderman Tibbs said they are not running the stop signs anyway but she was saying that if
they have the stop signs there at their place it is at least something to fall back on if there is an
accident or something.
Alderman O’Donohue said yes it is important but if they are going through them anyway he
didn’t understand how a stop sign will be effective. If someone hits a child they are going to get
a ticket and get in trouble for other things. He thought the point of this was to eliminate speeding
and if they are ignoring the stop sign. He didn’t have an issue with putting stop signs in there but
if it’s not going to work.
Alderman Tibbs said they don’t know that for everyone but was saying there were a few when
she was down there that day.
Mrs. Wilson said what you are raising is kind of an arm issue that this is a neck of the woods that
people are very comfortable with just being able to do whatever they are going to do whether
it is speed through to the next stop sign or if they decide like today it is an ongoing issue. It is
multifaceted and all they know is what they are seeing from their front porch.
Alderman Wilmert said he needed a summary. The original proposal was for the 4 way which
you wanted at Willard and Sherman and Willamette.
Mrs. Wilson said she was just requesting Sherman and Willard. Alderman Wilmert said what
they have in front of us in pink is what Police Chief Greenslate and Mr. Jackson came up with.
Mr. Bates said he would like to point out what Mr. Jackson said stop signs are not to be used to
control speed. You have speed limit signs and the Chief can run radar down there and stop the
speeding. That is not what stop signs are for to reduce speed. None of those are through streets
anyway. Isn’t there already East/West a stop sign at Willard and Hamilton?
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Alderman Wilmert said what is proposed here in pink is North South on Sherman correct and
East/West on Willamette and Sherman. Mrs. Wilson said correct. Mr. Bates said which would
make Willamette stop intersections at every intersection. Mr. Jackson said all but McLean
Street. Alderman O’Donohue said he knew the police department has manpower issues and he
was sorry to bring it up but it seems to him that you would get a lot more reduction in speed by
getting people in trouble for speeding in there than putting stop signs in and it doesn’t sound like
the stop signs, by what he has heard here it doesn’t sound like they are paying attention to them
anyway.
Police Chief Greenslate said his recommendation and Mr. Jackson’s recommendation is both
consideration of the wishes of the neighborhood and a consideration of the rest of the residences
that wish to get wherever they are going. They would be glad to do extra enforcement down
there and he was not aware of the issue concerning the stop signs until it was pointed out tonight.
They will make an effort to reduce that.
Mrs. Wilson said it has crossed her mind from a financial point of view she would love to have
his presence down there. Police Chief Greenslate said he was sending them right now. Mrs.
Wilson said as a side note they have some pretty heavy drug activity going on between our
homes and they were going to talk to the Chief. Police Chief Greenslate asked Mrs. Wilson to
come see him about this. Alderman Tibbs said Officer Slack did not about that area and watched
over it.
Alderman Wilmert thought they needed to put something at Willard & Sherman. It didn’t matter
which way they went but they needed at least something there.
Mayor Pro Tem Busby said they a Resolution already written for a 4 way stop and is on the
agenda. It was the consensus to leave the 4 way Resolution.
The Mayor Pro Tem asked for the Committees' Issues to be Presented:
Finance, Policy and Procedure:
Chairman Alderman Anderson said they would have a short meeting on Saturday at 9:00 a.m.
Alderman Hoinacki said he would not be present on Saturday. Mr. Bates said the finances on the
city hinge on a quorum being present.
Fire/Water & ESDA:
Chairman Alderman Horn said she did not have a report.
Grounds, Buildings and Local Improvements:
Chairman Alderman Tibbs said she did not have a report.
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Insurance:
Chairman Alderman Bacon said she did not have a report.
Ordinance and Zoning:
Chairman Alderman O’Donohue said had 3 ordinances for the Fire Department to be put on the
Agenda. They are 5-3-1, 5-3-11 and 5-3-12. He had a concern about 5-3-12 and the reason is
at the bottom of the 4th paragraph there was some wording put in “any persons having control
or custody of the property at the time of the emergency shall be charged a fee which will
compensate the City of Lincoln for the costs related to specialized rescue services provided
by the City of Lincoln by and through the Lincoln Fire Department after finding fault by the
Occupational Safety Health Administration (OSHA) or the Illinois Department of Labor.”
There is some concern about OSHA or Department of Labor having to sign off before we get
reimbursed and curious why that is in there.
Mr. Bates said there was concern on his part to and that is why he questioned the ordinance from
the beginning. That is the law and is the language out of the law.
Alderman O’Donohue said if the fire department went out on a rescue and OSHA didn’t show up
and OSHA doesn’t show up every time there is a rescue they can’t get the fees back.
Mr. Bates said that is how he understood the law as he read it and when he talked to Chief Miller
about that he said how are you ever going to get compensated because OSHA or the Illinois
Department of Labor is never going to make a ruling in 95% of the cases. He did not have an
answer other than this is the specific language in the law that authorizes this recovery. It has
to be in those standards to make those recoveries. He is only assuming that cities are making
recoveries without those rulings because you will see that is again in the actual adoption of the
ordinance in Section 1, page 2, 5-3-12 A the last part of that has the same language. That is
verbatim out of the law that establishes the right to make these recoveries. The only thing about
these ordinances as he understood them was that they were not done. He understood from Chief
Miller that there were things that he wanted to tweak from these and he had never heard back
from him and did not know they were done.
Assistant Fire Chief Dunovsky said Fire Chief Miller handed them to him and said they were
ready to go. Alderman O’Donohue said he could table them when they come up.
Assistant Fire Chief Dunovsky said he thought he said he was comfortable with everything that
was in them and they had talked briefly about the last one OSHA and there was no reason why
they couldn’t send them out to some of the people. They are just going to get a bill from them
and assume they are responsible for it and pay it but if anybody wants to fight it and they pull the
ordinance if there was never an investigation done then that would be their loophole.
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Mr. Bates said that was the question they raised from the very beginning when they started
looking at the law because that is what it says.
Police:
Chairman Alderman Hoinacki said he had a petition for the Harvest of Talents for their run on
October 22, 2011 and asked to have it on the consent agenda.
The following bids were opened:
Graue Chevrolet mid size SUV 2008 Nissan Pathfinder - $20,980.00
Graue Chevrolet mid size SUV 2008 GMC Envoy - $22,450.00
Jim Xamis 2011 Crown Victoria - $22,675.00
Graue Chevrolet patrol vehicle 2011 Chevrolet Tahoe - $29,889.00
Bill Jacobs, Joliet, IL 2012 Chevrolet Caprice - $29,606.90
Lincoln Chrysler Dodge Jeep patrol 2012 Dodge Charger - $22,831.00
Lincoln Chrysler Dodge Jeep 2008 Ford Explorer - $18,105.00
Police Chief Greenslate said just to refresh he specked the bids for two used 2008 mid size
SUV’s and one new police 4 door car rear wheel drive with the bid specifications. They are to
have less than 40,000 miles on the used vehicles.
Mayor Pro Tem said you will go through that and give us a recommendation on Monday. Police
Chief Greenslate said he intends to go inspect the vehicles that are available for viewing and
return with a report for you next week.
Sanitation/Technology:
Chairman Alderman Wilmert said he had a meeting this past week. They were successful getting
some of the container rent lowered for Joint Solid Waste. They had to do some repairs to the
truck. The glass recycling went well in June however, in July it seems that St. Gobain is no
longer taking glass any more so hopefully that decision will change or be reconsidered but as of
this last meeting they don’t have an outlet for it. They had to cancel the July collection. He was
going to see if they were on for August or not.
Streets and Alleys:
Chairman Alderman Neitzel said she had a few things. The fairground wants us to sweep again
in the amount of $382.60. She said they have been doing this for many years and asked if there
were any objections to put it on the Consent Agenda. There were none.
Alderman Neitzel asked to have on the agenda to go out for bids for overlay for 6th Street,
Pulaski Street, Kankakee Street, and Lincoln Avenue.
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Alderman Neitzel said the Mayor had sent them an email about the lights at Broadway and
McLean. They are not working so now they don’t have lights at Pulaski and these aren’t
working. Something to think about do they want to replace the controllers at an estimated cost of
$13,000.00 per intersection or remove the controllers and signals and install 4 way stop signs at
estimated cost of $2,000.00 per intersection.
Alderman Tibbs said she didn’t see any problem with having the stop signs. It’s all working
pretty good right now with the flashing lights and if they didn’t have to put out the extra money
for that.
Alderman Anderson asked if they would have any overhead flashing light also or would it just
be the signs. Mr. Jackson said they are looking at signs and looking at poles for that out at the
landfill and they could talk to Egizi and see about wiring something up for that. Alderman
Neitzel said you mean alert them that there is a flashing light for the stop sign there. Alderman
Anderson said the flashing light means stop whether you have a sign or not.
Mr. Jackson said they would have a solar light like what is on the barricades just like what they
put on for the fire department and each one of them. If he remembered correctly they were like
$60.00 a piece.
Alderman Anderson said she worried a little bit that people would be used to having a traffic
signal there. Alderman O’Donohue wanted to know why they couldn’t leave them just flashing
red. Police Chief Greenslate said that was what he was going to say and it has been doing that
at Pulaski and Kickapoo for how many months and we haven’t had a problem. Mr. Jackson
said they would have to order things and they would want it to match the light poles. Alderman
Neitzel said they would talk about it at the next meeting when the Mayor is back.
Mr. Mathon said there was another memo handed out. You recall back in April the state had sent
in a draft of an intergovernmental agreement as master agreement for traffic signal maintenance.
He had indicated to IDOT the concerns that were raised during our discussion.
Alderman Neitzel said the amount.
Mr. Mathon said the compensation amount and there two indemnity clauses and they got back
a revised agreement last Thursday and their solutions to those issues the total compensation
amount estimated after that amount. The indemnity issues they said that one clause was non
negotiable and that was 4J and the clause in 5J they added another phrase to it that specifies that
it was specifically hold harmless department etc, out signals and devices and the addition for
which the governing body is responsible (the City of Lincoln).
Alderman Neitzel said after we spend $163,000.00 it’s on us.
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Mr. Mathon said no that was the point of the issue that we raised with it and they communicated
with us that it was an estimated amount and on the cover page of the agreement they added the
estimated to that compensation amount. Evidently they have to have an amount specified.
Alderman Neitzel said we haven’t voted on that yet, have we. Mr. Mathon said no. Alderman
Neitzel asked if Mr. Bates needed to look it over before they put it on the agenda. Mr. Bates said
he had looked it over. Alderman Neitzel asked if it was ok. Mr. Bates said no but they are not
going to change it. Mayor Pro Tem Busby said like the water company. Mr. Bates said it was a
very poor agreement. Mr. Bates said they did not have a choice if they wanted to be reimbursed
for the maintenance on the light. Alderman Neitzel asked to have it on the agenda.
Sidewalks, Forestry and Lighting:
Chairman Alderman Armbrust said he had a sidewalk petition for 308 N. Sherman Street by
Barbara Ferguson. They are actually requesting a couple of wheelchair ramps. He asked that to
be put on the consent agenda.
Alderman Neitzel said she had one more thing she forgot. She had a petition for a curb break at
318 N. Chicago it will be a 12-14 foot piece and asked to have it on the consent agenda.
Sewer Treatment Plant, Sewers and Drainage:
Chairman Alderman Busby said he did not have a report, however, they do have a sink hole on
N. Logan and they are getting bids to line it. He said it would be a cheaper way than digging it
up. They are afraid if they do dig it up it will be more damage.
Alderman Tibbs said she overlooked the Harvest of Talents putting the usual sign up on the
corner of Pekin and Kickapoo Street and asked to have on the consent agenda.
Alderman O’Donohue said two weeks ago the question was asked of the status of the collection
agency process for the sewer bills and he was asking what the status was of that. Mrs. Martinek
said really until they get the shutoff.
Alderman O’Donohue said one has nothing to do with the other. They can turn someone
over to collections without having to worry about shutoff. They were going to turn over. His
understanding was that they are going to vote on and turn it over to the collection agency based
on a list that the sewer department was going to generate. He was asking if it has been done and
if not then why.
Mrs. Martinek said one of the reasons her sewer clerk is out and has been off since July 5.
Alderman O’Donohue asked what the plan was.
Mrs. Martinek thought the plan was that she was going to look through the list to give them an
idea of who could be turned over to the collection agency.
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Mrs. Martinek said her clerk has a pretty good idea of the payment history and so on but
unfortunately at this point like she said she has been off since July 5.
Alderman Tibbs said she has some personal family issues and was sure she would have things
ready to go when she gets back. We’ve waited this long we can wait.
Alderman O’Donohue said there comes a point though that if she is not going to be back that
someone needs to do it. He was not blaming her for being off with family problems and that
was not his issue and he was glad that she needed to care of what she needed to take care of.
Regardless, we need to begin the process and so if she is not coming back for another 3-4 weeks
what is the plan. She is the only one that can do it.
Mrs. Martinek said no but she thought it was that she was going to do that. Alderman
O’Donohue said he wants something done and didn’t want to come every two weeks asking if
it was done but wanted the process started. Alderman Tibbs said it will get done. Alderman
O’Donohue said he wanted it started and didn’t want to come back in two weeks and told that
they are still waiting. Mayor Pro Tem Busby said he thought they all felt the same way. Mr.
Conzo, Mayor Pro Tem Busby and Alderman Neitzel said they would help City Clerk Mrs.
Martinek.
Alderman Anderson made a motion to adjourn the meeting and Alderman Neitzel seconded it.
There were ten yeas (Alderman Anderson, Alderman Armbrust, Alderman Bacon, Alderman
Busby, Alderman Hoinacki, Alderman Horn, Alderman Neitzel, Alderman O’Donohue,
Alderman Tibbs, and Alderman Wilmert), zero nays, and none absent; motion carried.
The City of Lincoln Committee’s as a Whole Meeting adjourned at 7:50 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Risa Riggs
Recording Secretary
City of Lincoln